NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/misc-part1/4405

Internet Message Format | 1996-08-05 | 12.0 KB

Path: coranto.ucs.mun.ca!gnoel
From: [e-mail] (George Noel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: The March Amiga?
Date: 6 Feb 1996 02:47:40 GMT
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4f6fgc$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: plato.ucs.mun.ca

In article <[e-mail]>,
Eric Szulczewski <[e-mail]> wrote:

>GN> >So why are they releasing the 4000T and Net package here in NA?  Why
>GN> >not just wait until the PPC?
>
>GN> Because they know most of the demand for the A4000t is in North America
>GN> with all the video production companies whom can afford to pay the price
>GN> they are looking to get for it.  Why are they releasing the Net package
>GN> here? Because they realize it is the most trendy thing in North America
>GN> and THEY have the computer that everyone is wishing to be out there for
>GN> Net/Web access!  If they don't enter the market now, they could lose it
>GN> to Oracle etc.  Why wait for the PPC? Because it is as Dr. P. K said
>GN> directly to me in e-mail.. "too long to wait".
>
>What I was responding to with Gary was the "waiting to find an NA
>partner before doing anything big" remark.  If they're waiting, then
>why are they releasing those systems in NA?  That's all I meant.

They are releasing them in hopes that the dealers will promote them or
the older generation Amiga users that are left will upgrade.  They need
to wait for the North American partner to promote the machines majorly as
right now they need to put the money into production and R&D leaving the
North American partner to advertising and distribution.

It was mentioned in the January Amazing Amiga that several parties have
contacted Escom/AT to be the partner but some problems have to be worked
out before one is officially chosen.  I think Wonder Computers might be
in the contention with all their restructuring.

>Oh, yeah, George, you came into this late, so I'll just inform you:
>don't use Kittel as a source in arguments with me, since he and I are

I picked that up along the way.

>having a hot running feud ever since he thought I insulted him.

Might have read that message but have forgotten it. I only realized I was
reading a lot of your messages before and didn't realize it until someone
mentioned what your job profession is. :)

>Actually, Kittel's just jealous because I had two Nobel-winning
>instructors and he had none in our respective Physics days.

What have you done with your knowledge or where has it gotten you?

>GN> Who the hell even heard of Escom in North America prior to thier bid for
>GN> Commodore?
>
>Actually, I did, but I lived in Germany for 2 1/2 years.  But you have
>to admit, I live in NA and I've heard of them prior to the buyout...

Well this is true but you are an exception in this case.  I haven't
really heard of Escom prior to the Commodore buyout but I heard of some
of their subsidiaries.

>GN> That point is moot.  Sometimes a new change is needed and so
>GN> far it is working ok, this company responsible for the OS coding might
>GN> bring us some nice surprises in the future.
>
>Let's hope that we don't get a few nasty surprises along with it.  I
>don't want the moral equivalent of DOS sitting on my system.

Actually I take that back, where was it stated that the OS has been
contracted out? I thought the aspects of the hardware were contracted out
and the enhancement of the OS would be done INSIDE AT?

>GN> Escom/Amiga Technologies have no shops in North America
>
>Which may be a good thing, considering what happened in Britain.

Apparently Escom shops do not have a high popularity rate anyways, they
are the equivalent to our Radio Shacks.

>GN> and for them to be able to handle all the orders/distribution from
>GN> both sides of the ocean is a bit much for them I think.
>
>True, but are they working on a mass marketer with a little
>respectability for NA distribution?

Yes.

>GN> Also as far as I know Escom nor Amiga
>GN> Technologies are an International company, should they decide to set up
>GN> bases here in North America, they have to play by totally different
>GN> rules!
>
>They aren't that different, George.  The thing is, Petro promised in
>his initial speeches a US presence, and that presence so far has turned
>out to be Ed Goof.

They need some time to work on that but it seems to be drawing closer.
They need more dealers signbed back on first IMHO.

>GN> Right now I do not think they want to take that chance!
>
>If the Amiga is to make any dent as a "third standard", they'll have
>to take a chance and move into NA in a big way.
>
>GN> For some reason a computer that can access the net and web nowadays
>DOS machine.  Think about this from the standpoint of a first-time
>buyer.  Which looks like a "computer" and which looks like a "toy"?
>It's the physical aspects of the 1200 that I'm arguing about here.

The new Smart Terminals that Oracle will be putting out, though not seen yet,
which one would look like a monitor with a keyboard and which one will look
like a computer?

From a teenage/student point of view the A1200(+) would be less threatening,
save space on their desk, along with saving them money.  They are not going
after busineses and/or 30+ year olds with this machine!

>That's why I've said that the low-end should get away from the
>all-in-one, additional manufacturing costs nonwithstanding (of course

Oh I agree with this too but then it wouldn't be lowend anymore.  If people
want a middle classed machine, let AT make it with hopes they will buy it
and if enough got sold to drop the price, it taking over the lowend.

>there will be a price raise; I brought this issue up in a message to
>Kittel which has never been responded to).

Send it to him in e-mail but if he read it and didn't answer it, it might
be because he is getting tired of hearing this said and having to explain why
it won't work for the lowend.

>GN> Exactly and sometimes this is good and right now AT has to concentrate on
>GN> other things moreso then advertising.
>
>Like what, George?  They can still net more for R&D if they put a
>little money into advertising due to increased sales.

Then the money made goes to paying off advertising costs.

>Here's one of the main arguments that I've had with Gary, George.  Gary
>said it isn't needed until they hit the shelves.  I say that it's
>needed BEFORE they hit the shelves in order to build up a sense of

You can take either approach, some companies advertise once they have
everything setup and ready, others advertise to gain interest before
setting up.  The only thing AT or a partner could advertise now is their
own company and their plans for the future, not a product.  This is the
problem though, AT isn't going to advertise and their is no partner yet.

>But Gary's saying their minds should only be on the short-term, George.
>Bring your point up with him, not me.

Granted if they don't concentrate on the short term they could botch it
up and ruin it for the longterm.

>GN> Let's put it this way, they don't have to do ANYTHING with the Amiga if
>GN> they didn't want to.. then how much will the dissatisfaction rate go up?
>GN> Be lucky they are doing anything at all and NO company can work miracles
>GN> overnight.  I like seeing you voicing your concerns but I think you and
>GN> the others are taking it too far, if you have that PC blood in you, you
>GN> should choose that path and leave the Amiga to Amigans.
>
>Now that is incredibly insulting.  Just because we choose to criticize
>AT, we have "PC blood" in us?  Excuse me, just like a lot of people on
>here, I started with a C64 over a dozen years ago, and I've never owned
>any system except one made by Commodore.  I don't have one damn drop of
>"PC blood" in me.  I'm going after AT because I see them making the
>same mistakes that C= made.  I don't want to see that happen.

Point made.

>GN> Sometimes you have to lose money in order to make it.
>
>So what's wrong with losing a little of it in advertising and
>promotion?

Nothing, if you are promoting the right thing.

>But what exactly does "one new generation" mean?  Could the
>1200+/1300/whatever be considered a "generation"?

I don't think so.

>Who cares if you want to hear it?  No one wants to hear bad news.  But
>it HAS to be said, and I'm willing to say it.

Then put it in a more constructive form.

>GN> I still cannot see how you have to worry yourself over the A1200 or A1200+
>GN> with the machine you currently have and the goals you have for the future
>GN> other then you don't like the supposed image the public will associate
>GN> the AMIGA with based on these low-end computers.. am I right?
>
>Right.  And it's not just because the 1200 series is "low-end".  It's
>also the fact that it's old wine in a new bottle being presented as
>something new.  What I don't want the Amiga name associated with is
>cheap, old, weak systems.

This might be the case for the stock A1200 for now but the A1200+ will bring
a bit of life back into the platform until the Power Amiga.

>GN> >As I said, they have their best shots with the PPC.  However, they
>GN> >should still make mass marketing deals and ads for the 4000T in NA to
>GN> >(re)familiarize the market with the name "Amiga".
>
>GN> The CURRENT A4000t? No way.  The updated one with '060 and possible new
>GN> graphics chips? Yes.
>
>Well, we know the 060 part's true, but you keep having these mild
>delusions that there's going to be updated chip work, George.  Cold
>medication, perhaps?

AT is more then likely heading towards off the shelf chips modified to have
Amiga qualities/compatibility.  I wouldn't be surprised if the next chipset
is an off the shelf one that is currently out there with AGA emulation.
This wouldn't take as long as doing things from scratch.

>GN> The current A1200? No.  The A1200 Surfer? Yes.  The A1200+? Yes.
>
>But the 1200+ is just a 1200 with SIMM slots (as we know right now; it
>still may change, but not much).

Come on, that was all they were going to let out to show SOME change to
keep people quiet/media happy.  Do you think they are going to divulge
everything they are going to do with the chance to tip competition off?
Tell me Eric, what other lowend computer is out there that is mainly
centered around a CD-ROM drive? None.  There are rumours of this being
in the A1200+  I have asked some questions directly to Dr. P. K about
this machine via e-mail and all he said was "Sorry, no information can
be given out to the public about the A1200+ yet".  If it were mere SIMM
slots they were adding, why would the good Dr. say this?  It is the most
logical move.. they own the rights to the CD32 and SX-1 expansion unit,
why not just combine this into one to get rid of the game console as it
alone will not compete.  They already said they were revising the CD32 to
make it more competive, they could do this by making it a full fledged
computer.  They also plan on making a set-top box with CD-ROM drive,
floppy drive, communication, printer and video port etc. all this would
take is a modification/reworking of the A1200 motherboard and put it in
a new casing.  If they do it for a set-top box, why not also release the
same thing as a desktop computer?

>But you agree that they should advertise, and advertise immediately,
>correct?

Seeing as how it is now February, yes, they should be starting to
advertise.  But they have to be careful that advertising doesn't capture
everyones interest at first and them not being able to provide enough products.

>GN> A meat inspector's life is a cold one! :)
>
>like I am, you'd have a rather bleak outlook too, George.  Not to
>mention that I'm a public employee, and the reason you've never heard
>the term "disgruntled meat inspector" is that we tend to use knives and
>not guns.

:)

>GN> >Eric Szulczewski
>GN> >[e-mail]
>GN> >(soon to change)
>GN> >The Devil's Advocate
>
>GN> I like this MUCh better! :)
>
>I've been using it for a while.  But, you know that I'm also a member
>of Team AMIGA, don't you?

Ahh.. uh... yeah. :)


-=*George*=-